Paul

um Vrill was adventuring with other people and he still gained atleast 6x our experience. Sure villians are nice but we have really only had one, Vrill. The only reason he's still around is because of the gamemaster deciding for him to be, without regard to reason. Is that harsh? I don't think so. I think it's true. Sure I broke the rules and played a monk with a 4 con and a 5 wis. I think the way I broke the rules isn't as bad as giving an NPC a few hundred thousand experience, bringing him back from the dead TWICE. blah blah..

Things I have used in my game are the unknown enemy, where you can't really find out who's fucking with you, it can be hired thugs, manipulated people etc. Then you find the person behind it all. An evolving enemy, where a simple betrayal allows a former friend to become truly hated. Also organizational enemies, where it's more like an ideology is the enemy, where it can only be destroyed, if even then, with a great deal of bloodshed on all sides. Usually a leader of the organization or even a series of them can then be used. More to the point an NPC who bears the burden for all of this seems unrealistic to me. Especially if that person seems to recieve favors like the lever, and an evolution we as players are forbidden. What's fair is fair. Players shouldn't fudge shit and neither should the DM. Vrill has gained at minimum 350000 xp since the start of the game and he spent a fair amount of time dead. When he set off to the castle to get some good xp he went with others.....blah blah

I've come very close to quiting a lot of times. I can't give a good reason I post to the board. I don't really emjoy it. I think mostly I have just wanted to kill Vrill so I could leave it behind.

You asked what we've accomplished...I'd say very little, that's your fault as much as it's ours. What has Vrill accomplished....I don't know but the world seems to really like him besides us. I think that's why I really hate him.

Recurring villians are important to the game, but when they should die they should die. It's something like the end of a chapter. I had a party kill a Vampire Lord in a very good way. It ruined my story so I had to sit down and get to work on something else. Generally the something else is better than what I had thought of in the first place. The point is I didn't say "oh shit there goes my plot I better fudge this" I instead said "oh shit good job guys you just fucked me I'm gonna need a bit to figure some shit out." I think that players really like being able to feel, and indeed, do something that radically changes things. I don't think we have been able to change much of the game because I don't think we're really important to it. I think Vrill is. He is the story you have created, we have followed him around for sometime. I would have let him be after we killed him, but Abbey killed me and then pulled some domination cheese on my corpse.

I could go on....if you would like it can be our talk over turkey dinner.