Marivhon or Paul I don't know.

hrm I guess I should say that science is an exploration that is ongoing. Science is an esperiment in map making to get to a destination that is unknown. Scientists invent maps and then see if it gets them where they want to go. They use reason to create their maps. They believe, I would think, that the map they have invented will get them somewhere useful. There is no finishing this map. Things on the map that have been firmly set on previous maps can be shown to be a mirage. Scientists assuming they have it right isn't science, it's faith and it's necessary.

Rob your faith in science is fine with me, in fact I think reason is about the only really valid thing to have faith in. Reason does require being informed, but thats only fair. I have talked about affecture with people, it's a term I invented. It is the spin that words have as symbols in our life. I would say that faith has a negative affecture for you Rob and so you don't like it being used in regards to your belief in science. It's affecture is religious I would say, and because of that you don't like it. Faith doesn't have to be used in a religious sense.

Fred Phelps' daughter is what kicked all this off. I understand her religion and her religious feelings,
I think. <--faith in your reasoning while not being religious.

It's that simple. We think we are right, we may not be. Most scientist at some point in their career think they have something right and then they find out they don't. They had faith, and were wrong.

This is one of those times I do wish we were all together.