Paul

you misunderstand me. Faith isn't an intellectual viewpoint to me. I think that faith can be what's left after intellect investigates the dogmatic nature of religion. I think intellect is useful for investigating religious traditions to find out how much they are bullshit or not so much bullshit. Those traditions can affect faith, but faith isn't something most people come to by thinking. Intellect eliminates choices, in that sense maybe intellect is needed to prevent faith in something silly. I guess the words proper are dangerous but mark did in a sense ask about proper faith. I think intellect is useful, but I don't think it takes so much intellect that it is out of reach for most people to the point that the intellect needed is worth any specialness to it. Steve looks and evidence and uses I would assume his intellect to sort out is validity. I don't think what we said is really that different in any way except aesthetically. Aesthetics is religion, is peoples gods. blah blah